Hon Abdulrazaq Namdas, Chairman, House of Representatives
Committee on Media and Public Affairs, in this chat, spoke
extensively on how the 2017 estimates were appropriated and issues
raised in the Appropriation Act by the Minister of Works, Power and
Housing, Babatunde Fashola.
Can you comment on allegations made by the minister on the issue
of the 2017 budget.
The minister of Works, Power and Housing, has consistently been
accusing the National Assembly of, one, not having the power to
increase or reduce the budget, and that we have made some cuts
which, to him, has rendered his projects either useless and that in
other words, we also inserted bore holes and health centres and
what have you into the budget, instead of some of these big budget
issues that the executive has proposed. I want to tell you that you
can go back and check Sections 4, 59, 80 and 81 of the 1999
constitution as amended, these are some of the provisions that have
given us power to work on the budget.
And there is a clear judgment in our favour as I speak now when
Femi Falana took the National Assembly to court and he wanted the
court to interpret whether we had the powers to increase or to
decrease the budget and Justice Kolawole in May 2016 had given a
judgment that this institution was not created to be a rubber stamp
of anybody; we are an arm of government and we represent the
people; we have the right to increase or decrease any budgetary
allocation.
I know as a matter of fact that we cut some of the budget
proposals because we must do our budget process to reflect national
character; no zone should be cheated and no zone should be given
favourable attention than others, and that is why we had to do what
we did. In my opinion we didn’t do it for any mischief and we
didn’t do it for any personal gain.
Give instances
For instance, the second Niger Bridge the minister complained
about, firstly, he said we cut it from N15billion to N10billion
which was factually incorrect. The correct thing is that of the
N12billion that was allocated for the second Niger Bridge in 2016,
not a single kobo was released and that same amount was returned in
2017 budget. When I talk of return, some people were interpreting
it as cash, no, the same amount was returned back in the 2017
budget.
So we decided to take off N5billion out of the N12billion
leaving N7billion for the second Niger Bridge for the 2017 budget.
And what did we do with the N5billion? We took the N5billion to
South East where the proposal from the Presidency did not
cover.
For example, there was the Nsukka-Abakiliki road that we gave
about N2.1billion, we have this 9mile Road and we also gave money
there. There was another road in Makurdi both in the north central
and north east, all were catered for in this form. So it was not in
any bore hole or any other thing.
But whether they like it or not, there must be bore holes and
primary health care in the budget because the MDG goals have not
been attained; we are still struggling. If you go to some
communities, either in Lagos, Kano or any big city, our people are
still asking for ordinary water to drink but they cannot have it;
yet people are talking about gigantic projects. So these are the
issues and it was not done in bad taste.
Again, any time the National Assembly increases allocation on
any subject, once it favours the executive they don’t talk about
it; but it is when they feel that they are not favoured on any
particular issue that they get angry and the example of this is
there.
When the MTEF was brought, the crude oil benchmark was 42 dollars,
now we added 2dollars and when we added 2dollars did anybody
complain? Why we added 2dollars it was given to
infrastructural development and nobody complained about it; but
when you talk about reducing certain things to cover others, people
get angry.
As a matter of fact, a budget runs for 12 calendar months. So if
the excuse for not releasing money or working was because the
budget was signed in May, what happened in the remaining months
when weather conditions were favourable to construction works?
Still on the budget, the second Niger bridge, you said in 2016 was
allocated N12billion and there was no release at all. It then means
that in 2016 there was no work on the second Niger Bridge, since
there was no release?
Yes and that was why I used the word returned.
It means that no money was made available for that
project?
Agreed.
Having taken N5billion from that money which was not
released at all, it means that the work stalled last year and by
taking N5billion from the money you are going to further stall the
project?
No. When I told the world that the N12billion that was
appropriated in 2016 no kobo was released or used he did not deny
it. What he said was that they couldn’t work on it because the
budget was passed in May and it was rainy season.
So, what I am saying now is that the budget was passed also in
June which means the factor that stopped it from working is likely
to happen now again if that was his excuse.
In the interest of working together, when they brought back the
12billion naira, we felt that since they didn’t use the N12billion
before, we cannot allow N12billion to remain because there are
other critical projects that require funding too; so we took
N5billion. Because they’d failed to use the N12billion and we gave
N7billion, it means it would be N7billion that you would fail to
utilize.
The Lagos-Ibadan express way, he also said the reason
you gave for cutting fund was that you said that project is under
PPP and he has denied that there is no PPP arrangement as far as
that road is concerned. So if you are insisting that there is PPP
which firm is handling it?
If you read the response of the minister, he said the
arrangement is with consortium of banks and what they are about to
get is “like a loan”, he said it is like a loan that means, it is
like a loan which will require budgetary allocation to pay back; if
somebody tells you that ‘it is like’, it simply means he himself is
not sure of what he is telling you and we expect that if anything
is coming from the minister, there should be no doubt, he should
speak straight. So to even say ‘it is like’, shows that as far as
we are concerned we still stand our ground that these things are
there.
When we appropriated N40billion last year, go and confirm, it
was N26billion that was used, N14billion was not released. So even
if you had given them the N30billion, I can tell you that there is
no guarantee that the N30billion would be released. So, because of
experience of what we have been seeing, we needed to do something,
we had to move some of these funds because there are places that
require funding.
I come from Adamawa, you have been to my place before, if you
know the road between Mayobelwa to Gaindi my home town, it is a
road that connects two states and even to Cameroon and my
constituency is the food basket of Adamawa State, it is a federal
road; between 1999 to 2016, it was not captured by the national
budget because some people felt it is not important – so it has to
be Lagos, this road and that road, because I am not from there. If
you had given me N2billion out of some of these funds on that road,
it would have been helpful to me.
Is there anything that can be done now to remedy this situation now
that this controversy has come up on the second Niger Bridge,
Lagos-Ibadan express way, is it that the National Assembly has
passed the budget and they have taken their decision as it is or
there is a way out?
There is no way out. Let me tell you, once you pass a budget and
a president signs it, it becomes law and it becomes binding. How
can you bring back a law to review the law? But we had a gentle
man’s agreement and we will stand by that agreement, that if they
could come up with any critical project, we will look at it – these
are things we all agreed.
But what I am saying is that If we agree with you that, ‘please
sign this budget and anything you come up with we will look at it’,
and suddenly after signing you then turn round to complain, that,
to me, is not a gentleman’s agreement. We are ready to help the
executive. Go to the records and see, there is no executive bill
that has come from the President as far as I can remember that has
been rejected by this parliament.
The only way out of this is for the executive to understand and
agree that we have the powers to do what we are doing at the moment
and we should not carry in our heads that because we have the
powers we will do what we like, no. And that was why the National
Assembly decided to meet with the executive. Ordinarily if you
submit a budget to the National Assembly, the Executive ceases to
touch it, it is only when we return it to the Executive for assent.
But because we don’t want to carry the power on our heads, we also
want to liaise with the Presidency, because this National Assembly
is made up of majority APC and the President is APC.
We had asked them about the critical areas or priorities so that
we could work together. So if we had pre-budget meetings and we
also had some meetings before the signing, there shouldn’t have
been issues. But here there are people who want to show that I am
more knowledgeable and therefore we are trying to crisscross
something.
I think some people who have been able to pick up position at
the state level and have been having their way with the
legislatures when they do their budgeting, if today they find
themselves in the Executive and they cannot find their ways with
the National Assembly as they used to find with the state, they
should realise that these things are not the same and they should
understand where their power starts and they have their limits.
We, members of the National Assembly should also know where our
powers begin and end, and what is our limit. We should all look
together. But the most important thing is let the three arms of
government work in harmony with respect to one another so that
together we will deliver the dividends of democracy.
The man said you people inserted what was not put in the budget
estimate that was where his arguments started from.
We have passed this stage of insertion since 2016 budget. The
power to appropriate funds belongs to the National Assembly. So
inserting or not inserting does not even come up here at all and
that is why I am asking you when the budget came, it didn’t come
with 2dollar increase but you accepted the increase, but when I
reduced one critical budget that you are interested in, you become
angry.
We had pre-budget meetings, worked with the legislators, don’t
take us as your enemy, don’t incite Nigerians, so do your job, go
ahead and implement the budget because by the time you are giving
these excuses the months are passing by; they are even claiming
that they will bring 2018 budget in October and we are almost in
July now and you will be exchanging words on the pages of
newspapers, and before you realise it, it will be October, you have
not implemented anything, Nigerians have been cheated. Let us
implement what we have.
Let me give you another example; when I told the minister that
they budgeted N17billion just for environment impact assessment
(EIA) we felt that it was unjustifiable in Mambila, we felt it was
bogus and it was uncalled for, he did not fault what I said. What
he said was that it was a mis-description, that we should have
called his attention to it. As good as they are in that their place
since they know everything, they shouldn’t have been bringing
something to the National Assembly with a mis-description, but
because we have due diligence in the National Assembly, we were
able to detect mis-descriptions and that means we have been
working. So for somebody to accuse us, if you didn’t detect a
mistake and we detect it from the National Assembly, you should be
clapping for us.
And again when I even said that N20billion was just dumped in
the budget without details, the minister did not say I was telling
lies, he didn’t say I provided details. He only said it was a
proper planning, that N20billion was put in case of eventuality.
How can you put N20billion as miscellaneous in case of anything
when a whole Niger bridge was N12billion? So, if every ministry
must bring N20billion, then what is going to be the budget?
Virtually whatever I said was agreed by them but the only thing
is that people don’t want to accept when they have fallen short of
certain things and I said both the National Assembly and the
Executive including even the judiciary, we should be humble enough
to say these are our shortcomings like we did in the 2016 budget;
we agreed that we had some shortcomings and we apologised and we
even promised that in 2017, we will make sure that we step up our
activities and we introduced what is called public hearing, this
was something we didn’t do in 2016 but we did it in 2017.
Hon Abdulrazaq Namdas, Chairman, House of Representatives
Committee on Media and Public Affairs, in this chat, spoke
extensively on how the 2017 estimates were appropriated and issues
raised in the Appropriation Act by the Minister of Works, Power and
Housing, Babatunde Fashola.
Can you comment on allegations made by the minister on the issue
of the 2017 budget.
The minister of Works, Power and Housing, has consistently been
accusing the National Assembly of, one, not having the power to
increase or reduce the budget, and that we have made some cuts
which, to him, has rendered his projects either useless and that in
other words, we also inserted bore holes and health centres and
what have you into the budget, instead of some of these big budget
issues that the executive has proposed. I want to tell you that you
can go back and check Sections 4, 59, 80 and 81 of the 1999
constitution as amended, these are some of the provisions that have
given us power to work on the budget.
And there is a clear judgment in our favour as I speak now when
Femi Falana took the National Assembly to court and he wanted the
court to interpret whether we had the powers to increase or to
decrease the budget and Justice Kolawole in May 2016 had given a
judgment that this institution was not created to be a rubber stamp
of anybody; we are an arm of government and we represent the
people; we have the right to increase or decrease any budgetary
allocation.
I know as a matter of fact that we cut some of the budget
proposals because we must do our budget process to reflect national
character; no zone should be cheated and no zone should be given
favourable attention than others, and that is why we had to do what
we did. In my opinion we didn’t do it for any mischief and we
didn’t do it for any personal gain.
Give instances
For instance, the second Niger Bridge the minister complained
about, firstly, he said we cut it from N15billion to N10billion
which was factually incorrect. The correct thing is that of the
N12billion that was allocated for the second Niger Bridge in 2016,
not a single kobo was released and that same amount was returned in
2017 budget. When I talk of return, some people were interpreting
it as cash, no, the same amount was returned back in the 2017
budget.
So we decided to take off N5billion out of the N12billion
leaving N7billion for the second Niger Bridge for the 2017 budget.
And what did we do with the N5billion? We took the N5billion to
South East where the proposal from the Presidency did not
cover.
For example, there was the Nsukka-Abakiliki road that we gave
about N2.1billion, we have this 9mile Road and we also gave money
there. There was another road in Makurdi both in the north central
and north east, all were catered for in this form. So it was not in
any bore hole or any other thing.
But whether they like it or not, there must be bore holes and
primary health care in the budget because the MDG goals have not
been attained; we are still struggling. If you go to some
communities, either in Lagos, Kano or any big city, our people are
still asking for ordinary water to drink but they cannot have it;
yet people are talking about gigantic projects. So these are the
issues and it was not done in bad taste.
Again, any time the National Assembly increases allocation on
any subject, once it favours the executive they don’t talk about
it; but it is when they feel that they are not favoured on any
particular issue that they get angry and the example of this is
there.
When the MTEF was brought, the crude oil benchmark was 42 dollars,
now we added 2dollars and when we added 2dollars did anybody
complain? Why we added 2dollars it was given to
infrastructural development and nobody complained about it; but
when you talk about reducing certain things to cover others, people
get angry.
As a matter of fact, a budget runs for 12 calendar months. So if
the excuse for not releasing money or working was because the
budget was signed in May, what happened in the remaining months
when weather conditions were favourable to construction works?
Still on the budget, the second Niger bridge, you said in 2016 was
allocated N12billion and there was no release at all. It then means
that in 2016 there was no work on the second Niger Bridge, since
there was no release?
Yes and that was why I used the word returned.
It means that no money was made available for that
project?
Agreed.
Having taken N5billion from that money which was not
released at all, it means that the work stalled last year and by
taking N5billion from the money you are going to further stall the
project?
No. When I told the world that the N12billion that was
appropriated in 2016 no kobo was released or used he did not deny
it. What he said was that they couldn’t work on it because the
budget was passed in May and it was rainy season.
So, what I am saying now is that the budget was passed also in
June which means the factor that stopped it from working is likely
to happen now again if that was his excuse.
In the interest of working together, when they brought back the
12billion naira, we felt that since they didn’t use the N12billion
before, we cannot allow N12billion to remain because there are
other critical projects that require funding too; so we took
N5billion. Because they’d failed to use the N12billion and we gave
N7billion, it means it would be N7billion that you would fail to
utilize.
The Lagos-Ibadan express way, he also said the reason
you gave for cutting fund was that you said that project is under
PPP and he has denied that there is no PPP arrangement as far as
that road is concerned. So if you are insisting that there is PPP
which firm is handling it?
If you read the response of the minister, he said the
arrangement is with consortium of banks and what they are about to
get is “like a loan”, he said it is like a loan that means, it is
like a loan which will require budgetary allocation to pay back; if
somebody tells you that ‘it is like’, it simply means he himself is
not sure of what he is telling you and we expect that if anything
is coming from the minister, there should be no doubt, he should
speak straight. So to even say ‘it is like’, shows that as far as
we are concerned we still stand our ground that these things are
there.
When we appropriated N40billion last year, go and confirm, it
was N26billion that was used, N14billion was not released. So even
if you had given them the N30billion, I can tell you that there is
no guarantee that the N30billion would be released. So, because of
experience of what we have been seeing, we needed to do something,
we had to move some of these funds because there are places that
require funding.
I come from Adamawa, you have been to my place before, if you
know the road between Mayobelwa to Gaindi my home town, it is a
road that connects two states and even to Cameroon and my
constituency is the food basket of Adamawa State, it is a federal
road; between 1999 to 2016, it was not captured by the national
budget because some people felt it is not important – so it has to
be Lagos, this road and that road, because I am not from there. If
you had given me N2billion out of some of these funds on that road,
it would have been helpful to me.
Is there anything that can be done now to remedy this situation now
that this controversy has come up on the second Niger Bridge,
Lagos-Ibadan express way, is it that the National Assembly has
passed the budget and they have taken their decision as it is or
there is a way out?
There is no way out. Let me tell you, once you pass a budget and
a president signs it, it becomes law and it becomes binding. How
can you bring back a law to review the law? But we had a gentle
man’s agreement and we will stand by that agreement, that if they
could come up with any critical project, we will look at it – these
are things we all agreed.
But what I am saying is that If we agree with you that, ‘please
sign this budget and anything you come up with we will look at it’,
and suddenly after signing you then turn round to complain, that,
to me, is not a gentleman’s agreement. We are ready to help the
executive. Go to the records and see, there is no executive bill
that has come from the President as far as I can remember that has
been rejected by this parliament.
The only way out of this is for the executive to understand and
agree that we have the powers to do what we are doing at the moment
and we should not carry in our heads that because we have the
powers we will do what we like, no. And that was why the National
Assembly decided to meet with the executive. Ordinarily if you
submit a budget to the National Assembly, the Executive ceases to
touch it, it is only when we return it to the Executive for assent.
But because we don’t want to carry the power on our heads, we also
want to liaise with the Presidency, because this National Assembly
is made up of majority APC and the President is APC.
We had asked them about the critical areas or priorities so that
we could work together. So if we had pre-budget meetings and we
also had some meetings before the signing, there shouldn’t have
been issues. But here there are people who want to show that I am
more knowledgeable and therefore we are trying to crisscross
something.
I think some people who have been able to pick up position at
the state level and have been having their way with the
legislatures when they do their budgeting, if today they find
themselves in the Executive and they cannot find their ways with
the National Assembly as they used to find with the state, they
should realise that these things are not the same and they should
understand where their power starts and they have their limits.
We, members of the National Assembly should also know where our
powers begin and end, and what is our limit. We should all look
together. But the most important thing is let the three arms of
government work in harmony with respect to one another so that
together we will deliver the dividends of democracy.
The man said you people inserted what was not put in the budget
estimate that was where his arguments started from.
We have passed this stage of insertion since 2016 budget. The
power to appropriate funds belongs to the National Assembly. So
inserting or not inserting does not even come up here at all and
that is why I am asking you when the budget came, it didn’t come
with 2dollar increase but you accepted the increase, but when I
reduced one critical budget that you are interested in, you become
angry.
We had pre-budget meetings, worked with the legislators, don’t
take us as your enemy, don’t incite Nigerians, so do your job, go
ahead and implement the budget because by the time you are giving
these excuses the months are passing by; they are even claiming
that they will bring 2018 budget in October and we are almost in
July now and you will be exchanging words on the pages of
newspapers, and before you realise it, it will be October, you have
not implemented anything, Nigerians have been cheated. Let us
implement what we have.
Let me give you another example; when I told the minister that
they budgeted N17billion just for environment impact assessment
(EIA) we felt that it was unjustifiable in Mambila, we felt it was
bogus and it was uncalled for, he did not fault what I said. What
he said was that it was a mis-description, that we should have
called his attention to it. As good as they are in that their place
since they know everything, they shouldn’t have been bringing
something to the National Assembly with a mis-description, but
because we have due diligence in the National Assembly, we were
able to detect mis-descriptions and that means we have been
working. So for somebody to accuse us, if you didn’t detect a
mistake and we detect it from the National Assembly, you should be
clapping for us.
And again when I even said that N20billion was just dumped in
the budget without details, the minister did not say I was telling
lies, he didn’t say I provided details. He only said it was a
proper planning, that N20billion was put in case of eventuality.
How can you put N20billion as miscellaneous in case of anything
when a whole Niger bridge was N12billion? So, if every ministry
must bring N20billion, then what is going to be the budget?
Virtually whatever I said was agreed by them but the only thing
is that people don’t want to accept when they have fallen short of
certain things and I said both the National Assembly and the
Executive including even the judiciary, we should be humble enough
to say these are our shortcomings like we did in the 2016 budget;
we agreed that we had some shortcomings and we apologised and we
even promised that in 2017, we will make sure that we step up our
activities and we introduced what is called public hearing, this
was something we didn’t do in 2016 but we did it in 2017.
Read more https://nairalaw.com/2017-appropriation-act-fashola-should-stop-giving-excuses-namdas/